• Jan. 30, 2018, 10:24 p.m.

    BEWARE OF WALL OF TEXT, BUT IT’S IMPORTANT, K? Hey, all! I would love your input on a couple of things I’ve noticed here and there, some things I (and the other officers) consider to be problems and have tried to discuss, but I really think it’s not something only a handful of people could or should try to fix by themselves. There’s a couple of different points I’d like to touch on and it might not make the most sense, but bear with me. You are very welcome to comment on one or all of these things, think along, suggest ideas – or maybe you don’t think those are problems at all, that’s fine too. (P.S. speaking mostly for myself here, if any of the other officers disagree with anything I say, a „stfu, Cayr“ is welcome).

    1. „Lower level“ players being left behind and out of a lot of group content

    We have adamantly maintained that ODO is not an end-game only cabal and that we welcome recruits of all levels of the game and experience. In my opinion, however, we are increasingly becoming one. If you look at Cabal chat on an average night, most calls for group content are for regionals, e7+ dungeons, E5 (and recently E10 emerging) New York Raids. It used to be a little less obvious when SWL just launched and everyone started on equal footing, but it has become more and more stratified as time has gone on. Now, I don’t think that this is entirely our fault, since the way difficulty levels are structured now does in essence break people up into small groups, nor do I mean to say that running high-level content is bad or that we shouldn’t do it.
    The problem I see is that „lower-level“ players, whereas present in cabal, don’t often even ask for e1-e4 (or story) runs, mission help, etc. – perhaps stemming from a feeling that such requests are not welcome (just speculating, correct me if I’ve massively misunderstood here). I mean, really – I can’t remember who it was, but someone who needed an e1-e2 dungeon sat in a Group Finder queue for 2 hours rather than ask in cabal chat (just eventually mentioned it). What we absolutely CAN NOT do is force people to run content they don’t want to – meaning that this post isn’t meant as a guilt-trip to do content far below the level that you’d prefer to do. Rather, the question (at least in my opinion) is: how could we encourage people who need help or would like some company with story content to ask for it? How could we ensure that people get to run the group content that they need to? Do you see any other potential issues that might be causing this (I can think of perhaps a lack of tanks and healers)? Or if you happen to be one of the players that is not in the end-game grind yet – what do you think we could do to be more supportive and help? Everyone’s 2 cents is super welcome.

    2. NA and NZ/AU timezone players being neglected

    This is a more concrete issue and probably doesn’t need as much discussion and brainstorming than the first, but I’d still like to mention it just so we’re all on the same page.

    We seem to be having difficulty with getting raids/lairs/stuffs going in NA and NZ/AU timezone evenings and, consequently, the players in these timezones probably don’t get as much of a social aspect out of the cabal as do people who are active on EU primetimes. I can see two reasons for this, both of which have feasible solutions:

    a) ODO has far less (active) members in these time zones vs. the EU. It’s something the officer corps is aware of and we’re going to try to work on, namely target less populated time zones in terms of recruiting. But the issue isn’t exactly helped by the fact that just as we have fewer active players in those times, we have fewer officers and standard bearers covering that, too. So here’s where we could use a helping hand – if you’re an active NA or AU/NZ player and would like to lend a hand, ODO has a recruitment script (courtesy of Raztec, a round of applause) that you can fire off into General chat or whatever channel you wish. So if you think you could help, poke MCs or StBers on Discord and they can give you the script.

    b) Lack of active tanks and healers. Again, stems from point (a), but still worth thinking about ahead of time and not necessarily wait for potential future recruits. Like it or not, but even with the powers of Anima Allocation (shakes fist), group content largely still needs people who are able to tank or heal. This one has a relatively easy fix – who volunteers as tribute? 😝 Not saying we should force people to do roles they don’t want or bear the weight of the time zone on their shoulders, but the fact pretty much all the active tanks are EU primetime isn’t really helping. Just food for thought.

    3. The social aspect of the cabal

    From talking to people, it seems to be a general consensus that amidst the grind of the game, the social aspects of the cabal have started to slip. So this one’s a bit of an open point really, and more to gauge interest and the general vibes, in a a two-parter:

    a) In your opinion, is this a problem at all for you? Would you like to see more social events, contests, fight clubs (if Father would like to bring it back), RP (there’s also a thread about RP revival on the forums), and if yes, what events would you would like to see happen? Even if you don’t have a specific suggestion, maybe you have a more general interest in...anything at all, that could potentially inspire an activity?

    b) The officers have also talked about an issue with communication (in the largest sense possible). So I pass the question off to you – how do you think we could keep everyone informed better? What would you like to see? A bulletin on the site? A sporadical „progress report“ thingy on the forums about all the stuff that is going on (e.g. if someone’s updating the website, how’s recruiting going, maybe some of our members have done something awesome somewhere, etc)? Or would you like some sort of a way to grill the officers for things you want to know? (we’ll make 1 office hour for TS, call it „Beef With The Chief“. runs Ooh, or "Teatime with Tai"). Let me know in the replies below.

    I really hope all of this made a modicum of sense, but it’s late and I don’t even know anymore. Anyway. Comments, ideas, general screams into the void, all very welcome.

    Ooh, and also, feel free to bring up other stuff as well - there's probably a ton of things I'm not aware of and couldn't think of, so if you have anything else that you see as a problem, be it related to any of those three things or separate, please share 🙂 .

  • Retired 3 posts
    Jan. 30, 2018, 10:49 p.m.
    1. Going to explain things from my point of view as a "lower-level" player. I usually join when people are looking for lower-level runs that i know that i can handle. Even if i have the ip for e3 or e4 (not sure where im at atm, has been a while since i played still havent got my graphics card). I never tried it because i dont want to be a burden and weigh the team down and waste everyones time, this is not anything wrong from your part, I just feel like i dont want to be a burden and have to be carried trough dungeons and lair runs, i want to be able to pull my weight.

    2. I tend to stay off the social aspect a bit aswell because i feel i dont want to just jump into an conversation and annoy people. This is all my fault that i havent joined conversations as often as i could have, since ive only been met with kindness in cabal chat when i have asked questions or joined conversations. I feel alot of these "problems" you mentions is mostly us who are new fault. We need to dare to ask and be social in the cabal chat and look for groups within the cabal. Because the impression ive got is that most people are happy to help if you just ask. Us lower level players just need to start asking.

    I have no idea if I make any sense or not. It's getting late here and if i dont respond now i will just forget about it in the morning.

  • Retired 10 posts
    Jan. 31, 2018, 4:30 a.m.
    1. Not lower level so doesn't apply to me, but happy to help when asked... Good chance to get to know new players.

    2. There are plans to do cabal events on the weekends so that NA/US players with jobs during the week (like me) who typically cannot make cabal events that fall in the middle of the day US/NA time on week days have an opportunity to join with their EU friends to defeat the minions of SWL. There is talk of a weekend NYR E5 run and we have done some regional and MB runs on weekends recently, all good news! I'm happy to help recruit new members for US/NA timezone as I come across them. I have also recruited BOB (fck, fck, f*ck, I'm going to die!) to be the official/unofficial US/NA tank - we may have to buy him a mouse and a month of patron access though.... Your're welcome EU people!!!

    3. I enjoy the social aspect but mostly having fun on DIscord with the group while we game. I find the conversation fun and often vaguely inappropriate, which is perfect. So I'm less interested in fight clubs or role playing events. I'd rather group up with some fun cabal mates and see who can catch the most motes in Ankh or forget to run when set on fire in HE, or who is "slacking" in "the well". Good times!!!

  • Jan. 31, 2018, 7:05 a.m.

    1, My alts are e2-e3 by only doing lairs and NYR.(Chaotically fun with people from LoMS XD) Life without dungeons/scenarios are much more enjoyable to be honest. Thus, I kinda like do 2 or 3 lairs a day. It's a place all players can enjoy.(World boss too slow while regionals are not new player friendly) :>
    2, Not in AU/NZ timezone. But, I guess I am the only tank available to a lot of people from NZ to RU when doing dungeon. And...what is a healer. XD
    3, I am technically blocked by the Great Firewall, isolated from this world by Big Brother of China like almost all people in China. I simply enjoy every moment I can still stay with the people from the rest of the world till one day all VPNs fails, dark days come, and China turns into Soviet or North Korea mode by whichever chairman with stupid ambitions. :

  • Jan. 31, 2018, 10:19 a.m.

    Keeper, just a quick note on the "what are healers" point - I think the lack of healers is simultaneously the fault of the fact that our few active tanks are high-level sustain tanks and the reason why there aren't any more tanks. From what I've seen, we HAVE people who would want to tank, a) but are not high enough level yet to be able to sustain or don't want to sustain (prefer to use a different build) or b) are just starting out and in terms of learning the tank mechanics, the positioning, impairs/purges and such, it's better to have one thing to worry about rather than all that + keeping yourself up. Lack of available healers actually hampers new tanks getting started.

  • Jan. 31, 2018, 11:45 a.m.

    Aww Cayr, On a grand level, the problem is consisted by 2 facts: 1, the role dependency in group contents.(People are much happier in story mode 😝) 2, the imbalance of roles among population.(DPS everywhere D:)

    As the general population in East Asia and AU/NZ and maybe even plus Russia is already really low following overall player number decrease in SWL. I can hardly see a healer here during East Asia evening. Sustaintank is a solution to remove the dependency of a healer thus at least a group can be put together to do things.(Instead of waiting another hours for healer after tank has come). It's hard especially I have high latency in China, and sometimes boring as I sustain at least 18bosses everyday.

    But at least I know I can help at least 4 dps everyday. :> (But...even after 36 keys, there are still lots of dps looking for groups...)

    In addition, maybe we shall let people have a chance to gear up first and then learn the technical later.(Even via being "carried"...for maybe no better word can describe it.) Higher gear levels can allow mistakes be...less punishing.
    Without great power, nobody can take great responsibility 😝

  • Jan. 31, 2018, 6:04 p.m.

    This can be a double edged sword tbh.
    On the one hand, it's nice to get people gear upgrades quickly so that they get the progression feeling, but it can also backfire, as people sometimes are less comfortable with making mistakes in dungeons at higher gear levels.

    Personally, I don't enjoy being carried to the point where I'm feeling like I'd be just as useful if I AFKed. I've also found that running dungeons are more enjoyable when I learn mechanics as I go, so that I can at least try to survive an encounter. For me, it's better than just having more experienced and better geared people steamroll bosses while I have no idea why I died and they didn't. I'd rather fight and fail on a boss than just be handed the loot.

    It's not a position that everyone shares, but it's also not a unique one.

    I'm aware that having been out of the game with a dead pc for a month, I'm probably going to be encountering a fair bit of IP disparity with the people who I used to compare with, and it's something where I'll have to work out how much I want to progress quickly and how much I want to actually be contributing towards boss kills.

    On the healer numbers, it becomes a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. There aren't enough healers, so tanks all go sustain. Then when a healer comes along actually wanting to heal, they're told to use AA to go DPS, as the tank will just sustain. That then means that everyone who is not a tank is suddenly viewed as a DPS, including the hidden healers.