Lairs

There was talk about setting up cabal run lair runs and world boss summonings. But before we go and start doing something we're having a cabal wide vote to see if there is enough interest. Here is the outlined system for lair run participation progression and loot, since if this is going to be a systematical cabal effort, it has to be systematic 😝.

Basic structure is a DKP system with people getting 1 point for participation in cabal run lair boss summoning. During world boss summoning people can spend all their points on a signet they want if they can outbid others. So basically a suicide kings system, but with points and not just a list.

Now for specifics, lair fragments also grant points. Cabal holds all fragments and they will be listed on the website.

Fragments are worth as follows:
Blue – 1 point
Purple – 5 points
World boss piece – 72 points

A planned lair run can withdraw the fragments they want, this will result in a total sum of points which is divided by total number of participants and withdrawn from their accounts. So a point score can theoretically become negative.

Upon completion of the run all fragments gained and unused are returned and the total from these fragments are then divided by number of participants and added to their personal accounts. So unless fragments are never returned or group ends up unable to kill the boss, every run should always give positive progression to all participants.

You can also sell fragments to the cabal for points for a maximum of 72 points per week, which is equivalent to a world boss fragment. This is however only valid for pieces that we have less than 10 of in stock. Any piece that cabal has more than 10 of in stock can be purchased for points or current going rate in PAX.

For now any loot except purple signets is distributed by need greed rolls. And it is currently undecided if signets can be bid on only by those present at the kill or anyone who has points. And of course anything outlined is subject to change, so please vote and leave your comments below, the poll will be active for 30 days unless decided otherwise.

I'm trying to do lair runs now, dunno that we need points for it.

If you do not use points then what do you propose? If cabal does world boss summon, who should get the signets?

If the time is right I'd love to come
I need some signets, and yes, a list is good, but I think it is too complicated... maybe you can simplify it?

Suggestions of how to simplify it would be appreciated!

This system is something Hlop and I have discussed before - but it's not the only option out there. We're happy to take suggestions and ideas about how to distribute loot.

The key aspect that we talked about was rewarding player participation. If someone is working their butt off in lairs, running every one we do, then shouldn't they have a better chance at getting something to reward their participation than someone who has say attended one lair?

Will be happy to join on regular cabal lair runs, need more achievements. Don't care much about world bosses, so reward distribution system is fine with me any way. It sounds like it would be complicated for a group leader or whoever manages points and fragments though.

I kinda like how they're occasionally run now without the SK system - just casually. Maybe casual lair runs, since the bosses are a weekly challenge thing these days, is a way to go? First come, first serve, maybe reserve some hours in the schedule if people want to make an effort to turn up.

Just to point out, the lairs themselves are not the issue - we can run them, no worries.

The question is about the epic signets we get from the cabal owned fragments. For each regional boss we summon, we get an epic signet. That means to complete a world boss summon pattern, we get 3 epic signets and then 3 more when we summon the Word Boss.

If Cabalie A runs every lair, but misses out on the regional boss summons, then the world boss summons, then they have zero chance at any of the epic signets which would not be dropping if not for their effort.

Cabalie B runs zero lairs, but happens to join for the regional summons and then the WB too. They stand a 60% chance of walking away with at least one epic signet that someone else has done the background work for.

It's this situation which is why we're talking about any kind of DKP system - and just to clarify, we would NOT be using the raiders SK list, that is for raid drops only.

There are always things we could do for the character we are playing, in order to advance it. Being in a cabal i personally think that helping cabal achieve something more and help there is a priority for me. Make reasonable times that i can be online and i can be core member to lair farming

Lairs! I was excited to see this subject as they're some of my favorite content to run (relaxed, big group, experienced and new players coming together...what's not to love?) though I have never been a fragments juggler or what have you.

I really like the general idea behind how you've proposed organizing it, but the numbers made my head spin a little. Some kind of participation credit toward WB stuff could be cool tho.

However, if participation is going to count toward something greater in that way, might it be possible to publicize when a lair run might happen in advance sometimes? Maybe we don't want signups (or maybe we do?) but if we're going to get credit for stuff, it might be nice to sometimes know what's gonna happen so that I can be at the lair with my party hat on rather than off cleaning my house or running Tyler Freeborn on my lumi or something. 🙂

(I like spontaneous lairs sometimes too, tho.)

I do agree that there should be some system for rewarding people who run regularly and help with the background work, more highly than people who only run when there's an epic-signet-dropping-boss.

Er. I made that sentence a bit screwiff. I hope it's not ambiguous.

I don't know if it should be THIS system, or some other system. I also don't have the brainpower at the moment to analyse and cross-compare systems, and I trust Hlopushka and AWOL to have done an honest job of analysing and comparing the systems other cabals have published, and that they and/or the rest of the cabal have thought up.

So since my brain isn't up to the job right now, and two people who I trust have stepped up to DO that job ... eh. I'll vote for it!

Especially since I also trust that if it consistently shows unfair results (as opposed to the occasional statistical aberration), someone in the guild membership will notice and make a thread about it, and we can review it.

Dammit. On reviewing this, I can't tell if I've made sense or not. I woke up with visual hallucinations and one hell of a headache, so I might be fighting a migraine. 🙁 If I haven't made sense, please post and I'll try again.

Hey All, this thread has been on for a while, but FWIW I enjoyed doing lairs in the past for the pure social element of it. Gear is not much of a concern for me since I am not trying to min/max my character for raiding and whatnot, so I would be happy to support others with their gearing. As for my activity, if there's a calendar event I would be sure to be online for it -- although I live in Scotland atm so not sure whether the time would work for me!

So we had about 15% of members who have voted. Which is not bad, but basically means that 85% of members do not care or want to do lairs.

15 people want to run them regularly, so that is enough for us to go through the hassle of organizing this, so expect lair runs to show up in the calendar soon.

If you want to lead a lair group on regular basis then please let us know, otherwise time will depend on when officers can run it.

Hey, I don't mind organizing, esp. if the officers don't feel excited about it themselves. The only trouble is timing. Would something in the evening UK time work for enough of the people who are interested?

Let me know time and day of the week, I'll throw it up on the calendar and we'll see. UK evenings usually have enough people to get things going.

I just joined (and need to run over to the introductions area) and am too late to vote but I really enjoy lairs and would like doing them regularly. Maybe I like rules and order too much but I don't think the point system set up seems overly complicated. So a yes regular lairs late vote from me.

OK, then, let's try next Tues, Dec 1 at 9pm London-time!

Excelsior!

Ok, it's on the calendar now as one of, if it works for you we can make it a weekly thing